They think it’s all over – it isn’t yet!

The May Cabinet.

WHEN the result of the Brexit vote was initially revealed, it was believed that as it was advisory and not binding then any decision to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty would only be made following a vote in parliament. But this is not accepted by the current government and the matter will be heard by the Lord Chief Justice within the next month.

There is more than one organisation demanding that the court instructs the government to debate the matter in public, but whilst the government will be defending its position, it had not intended to explain its defence. Thanks to the actions of a lawyer representing one of the claimants it has been instructed to do exactly that.

On September 28, therefore, the government revealed that it was the will of the people that Britain should leave the European Union and that it believes that those who voted expected the government to comply with that decision. But it went further stating that the government is solely responsible for implementing the foreign policy of the United Kingdom it is under no obligation to take any notice of the parliaments of Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales.

It also argues that the constitution should not allow a court to force the government to introduce legislation, despite the fact that it has always been argued that Britain does not have a formal written constitution and depends on the rule of law and precedence.

Whatever legal decision is made in October, it is expected that the losing side will then take the matter for final appeal to the Supreme Court in December.

On the same day that this information was revealed, re-elected leader of the Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn said his party would resist Brexit if it was not beneficial to British workers and that Labour should gear itself up for a snap election in 2017, possibly before Article 50 is invoked.

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    • Ted van der Beek

      29 September 2016 • 00:11

      LEAVE voters were not driven by xenofobic or racist motives but (I quote:) “by the heartfelt wish to regain sovereignty and democracy for Britain”.
      Now, pending a major decision on UK’s future, these “patriots” want to sideline the core of parliamentary democracy: their democratically elected parliament.
      Erdogan’s version of democracy springs to mind.

    • Roy Peters

      28 September 2016 • 18:34

      So far as I am concerned the people have spoken and that is that!
      It should NOT be put to a vote in Parliament, or be allowed to be dragged through the courts because it is the will of the majority of people in the country.
      It is well known that most M.P.’s want to stay in the EU, but the people ruled against that, and the decision should not be overturned by anyone.

    • Mike in ESP

      28 September 2016 • 21:28

      Just get on with it and go forward.

      Doesn’t really matter what JC thinks or does, Labour party are falling to bits, it will probably split one way or another, as far as being an opposition is concerned, no one in their right mind would vote for Labour under JC to run the country lol

      The governments stance on this is exactly what it should be and as I have always said it should be but there will always be the desperate losers battle to try and grab back the way they want it to be… the media will milk this to the bone and just take everything out of proportion as they always do, it is the media who are the biggest instigators of problems in our society today!

    • Ian

      29 September 2016 • 07:10

      On many previous occasions through these pages and others encouragement has been given to anyone any longer interested, to read Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, especially clause 4, and then work out what the constitutional requirement for the UK actually is, regarding the UK gov making an application to withdraw membership from the EU.

    • Solobella

      29 September 2016 • 14:43

      Problem was that approx 5m non-domiciled Brits are disenfranchised. The 2m majority in the vote, is in my book inconclusive. Thanks Tony Blair for removing my democratic right to vote.

    • Brian Eagleson

      29 September 2016 • 18:22

      Some of you may remember I mentioned the wonderfully named Lord Pannick’s contribution to the Brexit debate some 3 months ago. Some of my info was from this BBC item dated 30 June, “Can the law stop Brexit?”. Here’s the link.

      It refers to the apparent fact that the UK parliament’s own 1972 European Communities Act requires a sitting British prime minister wishing to trigger Article 50 to pass a new Act of parliament effectively OVERTURNING the 1972 Act before Article 50 can be legally triggered – otherwise he or she would be found to have broken the law enshrined in the 1972 Act.

      In other words it looks like Theresa May HAS to table a NEW Act of Parliament which would have to be debated and VOTED on by all MPs before she can legally start the official Brexit. She’s resisting it of course, but that’s what this development is all about and I think the lawyers may force her hand.

      Will it be a free vote? Unlikely. But one things for sure. A whole can of worms has been opened up, including how to deal with Scotland, NI and even Gibraltar voting to Remain – by 62% in the case of the Scots, nearly two thirds of the Scottish voters. Theresa would be ignoring them at her peril.

    • Roy Peters

      29 September 2016 • 19:08

      Ted, what you may not know is that a majority of parliamentarians are against Brexit and would vote to remain. This goes against the wishes of the people, who voted to leave.
      To put this vote to Parliament would be a disaster, and we would never be free of the encroaching EU. who wish to control everything and every country.

    • Mike in ESP

      30 September 2016 • 08:21

      Seems a lot of the wee Jimmy Kranke supporters still just don’t seem to get it but then if they let the wool get pulled over their eyes by her then thats probably part of their problem, they seem not able to grasp the Brexit referendum wasn’t about N.I., Scotland, Wales, Gibraltar or England as they talk about them… it was about them all… together as a single entity, they voted as a single entity because they where a member of the EU as a single entity and are accepted by the EU as a member as a single entity, while also being looked upon in that membership as they are, a single entity called the United Kingdom! 🙂 But then I guess we will all have to listen to them whinging on until they actually come round and start wakening up and see the benefits of leaving the EU but given the fact that most of them ware blinkers “as most devout nationalists do” then maybe that will be a bigger task then it would be with most, aw well I guess the rest of us should just get on with our lives positively and let these people whinge on in their depression! 🙂

    • Brian Eagleson

      30 September 2016 • 09:30

      Amazingly emotive contribution Mike, referring to “wee Jimmy Kranke (sic) supporters” and “whinging” etc. Let’s rise above that kind of language and have a more mature debate. I’m only pointing out the difficulties facing Theresa May. They are real.

      Consider this. How would you feel if you live in a country where you are in the majority who vote for something and it doesn’t happen? Your democratic vote gets overruled and you get the opposite. If it was the Brexit vote you would be extremely annoyed. Now try walking around in someone else’s shoes for a moment. Imagine you live in a different country, not a county, and your vote is part of an even bigger majority for something. Yet in just the same way it gets overruled and you get the opposite. You would be just as extremely annoyed.

      Now do you see the sheer scale of the conflict Theresa May faces? Polar opposites. You can call Scotland’s first minister any names you like, but she is definitely not pulling wool over anyone’s eyes as you put it. She is clearly diametrically opposed to Brexit in line with the democratic vote of the people she was elected to represent. So is Theresa, but from the opposite side of the fence.

      Have a look at my link to the BBC item in my earlier contribution. Although it dates back to June it’s as illuminating now as it was then.

    • felipe

      30 September 2016 • 10:00

      A very insignificant majority and mostly those who will not benefit either way as they’re too old, but their children will and voted accordingly !
      For votes which can have extremely long-term consequences, (like changing the constitution) a simple majority vote is usually not enough. Such voting’s and referendums are not about electing a temporary leadership which can be easily changed in 4 years or even sooner. Therefore it’s common practice to require supermajority, for example:
      Over 50% of all people with a right to vote, including expats !
      Over 2/3 of those who voted, with possible further constraints like a turnout of over 50%…
      Why wasn’t supermajority required for the Brexit referendum? A vote which is close to 50% – 50%, (and it was foreseeable to be close to 50% / 50%) is highly depending on random chance: mood, weather, recent events, false information to the uninformed majority, which stir up emotions but are insignificant long-term, and other temporary factors which might change the result a percent or two in a very short time period. So one could argue that Britain let random chance and temporary mood to decide its long term values and strategies.

    • Mike in ESP

      30 September 2016 • 21:16

      Rise above what kind of language Brian? I am sure most on this know you are not what you paint yourself to be so stop with the “high almighty” stuff, there is no issue with the kind of language so stop please!

      What I call Scotland first minister is very mild stuff from what I can see or read others to call her, I won’t go into that apart from that I see nothing wrong with calling someone as deceitful as she is some of what she is called, you believe her and what she says but people are wakening up to what I and others believe her to be, the sooner you do the better for you but you go on believing in her if you like 🙂

      Of all the things that might stop a Brexit Brian it will not be the law that will stop it, I am fairly sure of that but you go on having hope in apparent desperation at getting the end result you want in another way.

      An interesting bit by Peter Widows you might like a read of:


    • Mike in ESP

      30 September 2016 • 21:26

      From what I see British expats abroad is around 1.5 M and not 5 M, 1.5 M is not even approx 5 M 🙂

      Maybe we should take the right of Irish passport holders who are not British and have no British passports but who are resident in the UK to have voted… what has a British referendum got to do with these people? It was estimated that 500,000 Irish where living in the UK in 2001, that was 15 years ago and I would estimate the number now to be more and as residents… I love the way the British government keeps track of immigrant numbers… or rather doesn’t, that info comes from global Irish web site 🙂

    • Mike in ESP

      30 September 2016 • 21:31

      One could also argue that Britain has made a wondrous and wise decision in rejecting the vile corrupt and broken “smashed in little pieces” EU run by the biggest bunch of despot people ever to be in a position of such power in out times!

      Actually, come to think of it I tend to agree with this view 🙂

    • Brian Eagleson

      01 October 2016 • 14:29

      Peter Widdows’ blog shows he obviously shares the same strong opinions that you have, Mike. That’s fine, but opinions are exactly that – opinions. As I’ve always said, I prefer to deal with facts. However, I actually agree with much of what he says. I have consistently held the view myself that the EU is corrupt and undemocratic, particularly the European Commission. I’ve always said it is far from perfect. That’s why it needs to be fixed, or else it is doomed to fail.

      My way of dealing with problems like that though, is to work at them and try to solve them – not just walk away from them. If you just walk away, they have a habit of festering on until they rear up and cause even more trouble for you further down the line. The main reason among others for my voting Remain was so that Britain could continue with its involvement in attempting to fix the problems within the EU. Now it can’t.

      However the vote has been cast. The result is a fact! Heheh. The UK has walked away. I fully accept that. All I’m saying though, is there’s a lot of hard work ahead for Theresa May and her ministers and staff before any kind of final outcome can be made acceptable to EVERYONE in the United Kingdom as well as expats and non-doms like us. I would have thought that was obvious. The UK as a whole is split almost right down the middle – approximately 51% to 49. That’s hard to heal.

      My sincere congratulations to you though, Mike. You got what you wanted. Your campaign succeeded. Well done.

    • Mike in ESP

      01 October 2016 • 19:02

      Problem is you don’t deal with the facts Brian, you deal with your opinions just as you are suggesting others do, there are no facts on most of what we discuss here! I deal with with things using my common sense along with my opinions and so far they appear to be have been better on Brexit than many others opinions… including yours. 🙂 But only time will tell on many others of them.

      Nice of you to offer congratulations Brian but they should not be for me and it would be selfish of me to accept them as you offer them, they should be for most if not all of the British people and if my common sense serves me as well as I would like to think it does, then most if not all British people will be much better off out, apart from a few grumbling ex pats who might have an issue with the exchange rate 🙂 Maybe then the majority of the remainians will be men enough to stand up and say thanks to those who voted them out and I already offer my thanks to them. Eventually realisation from the people with naive opinions thinking we can change the EU from within will hit home as it sinks in that it this is just not possible, the EU cannot be changed from within Brian, never could be, and it never will be unless things change within its structure by those who are self elected to run it, and that is not going to happen! They had long enough to get their act together, eventually ppl need to waken up and realise they are wasting their time and everyone elses by flogging a dead horse!

    • Brian Eagleson

      01 October 2016 • 21:42

      Thanks Mike. Nice of you to say that.

    • Mike in ESP

      04 October 2016 • 07:55

      One big problem with this is that where the vote to be reversed now and not followed through I think there would be major problems in the UK, not from the majority that voted to leave but from the minority within that group instigating civil unrest.

      Anyway, I don’t think now it will be reversed, I kind of feel Teresa May and other people are starting to come round to the vote and accept the direction we need to go in, this is good and is the way I would expect it to go if thinking positively on the decision, I also think as time moves on through the Brexit process others will also come round to it.
      Any politician that thinks otherwise, who feels they need to try and reverse the vote shouldn’t be a politician. That goes for the Lords also, I think the HoL should be dissolved or cut down to size as it has bloated to a room full of fat cats that remind me of pigs with their snouts in a great big trough… when I see hypocrites like Chakrabarti there makes me start to feel sick!


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